An Antitheist [my take on religion and disbelief]

There is much debate about religion by believers and non-believers.  Many terms such as agnostic, atheist, skeptic, et al, for those of little or no faith. I would like to make a distinction between the two, the theist and the antitheist, which is not about God or the veracity of “Holy scripture”.

Religion is natural to humans and is our humanity, especially in our respect for the dead. Religion is based on the belief that humans have an inner spirit, an immaterial inner self.  Basic religion is belief that human spirits, upon mortal death, go to a supernatural spirit world. This religion is simple, and ritualistic. This is ancestor worship, because we are humans. It is natural and will never end until humans do.

Disbelief, in this case, is of a story that is utterly impossible to believe.  Every non-believer/antitheist knows, like everyone else, that all humans have a spirit, but they have no faith that the this spirit continues to exist beyond mortal death.   Death is final and irreversible.  Atheists, by my definition, believe there is but one life, not two.

Therefore, religion is based on belief in a human spirit and a supernatural spirit world which is magical thinking, and a scam.  Add to that the delusion of resurrection and we have people who are mentally ill as they pray for the final battle between good and evil.

Amen

Maybe there are those who still hang on to the possibility of there being some kind of a God. It would be good to hear from you.  I feel the plausibility, the possibility, the likelihood of humans being resurrected because they have an eternal soul, is a belief I cannot hold. No resurrection, no need of heaven or God. GROG

This delusional situation of resurrection and an afterlife is both an educational issue and a mental health problem. It can be cured with factual education. We must learn to live without God.  GROG

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28 thoughts on “An Antitheist [my take on religion and disbelief]

  1. Christians do not believe in two lifes, our souls are eternal. Being reborn is not a physical function but a spiritual one. Death is but a doorway or thin veil onto the next chapter of our ONE eternal life. When you read of the resurrected, that is their physical bodies not their spirits.

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      1. Hello Amanda. There is no evidence except in the delusional minds of people who think they are special. They seem to mistake their miraculous mind for their true-self. That is spirit stuff, eternal no less. Stand Tall For Christ says resurrection is physical so in their second life the resurrected mortal tags along with the eternal soul for, right, eternity! How long has this been going on?!

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      2. I mean if you were a skeptic what facts would convince you that the creator of the christian bible likely exists as christianity claims?

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      3. No facts provide evidence; like if I say gravity exists, and give evidence like show an example of gravity working, then I would be using facts (like the fact that the ball came back down) as convincing evidence to back up the claim that gravity exists.

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  2. The monotheists have various theories about the “eternal” soul and and the mortal body. The immortal soul, believed to be a spirit child of God, becomes part of the mortal body, let’s say, at birth. Upon death of the mortal body, the eternal soul just hangs around until the mortal body somehow, and in some form, rejoins the eternal soul for life number 2 in heaven. Evidently you believe in a physical resurrection and will be able to meet family and friends during eternity in heaven?

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  3. Keith, evidently you believe in a physical resurrection of the mortal body with an eternal soul. What does your resurrected self look like, and how does a resurrected being function? How is communication carried out? i suppose there is a lot of singing the praises, so there must be sound and breathing and air? Do you have any idea of what heaven is like?

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  4. 1: pertaining to the conversation on resurrection – Grog, as far as your last questions go, they seem to imply confusion between “heaven” and the eternal state at the end of time. There will be things in some similarity with our current existence in the “new earth” after judgement day (as the end of Revelation and Christ’s own resurrected body imply), but “heaven” now is a very different place than that eventual “new earth.”

    2: question – why is it not as implausible, indeed impossible, to believe the the physical universe just popped into existence one day out of some nonsensical “point in space” that exploded? After all, “Science” proves that absolutely NOTHING can come out of nothing, right?

    If you ask me, the belief in magical “chance” and nonsensical concepts of the material universe “changing itself over time” do more to indicate a need for education and a potential need to address a brain malfunction than most other “religious” ideas…

    Not intending to be unnecessarily offensive, but you lodged those accusations at the majority of humanity over the ages – why should we not ask the same questions of you and you “new” ideas that cannot be proven?

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  5. jd. Right now I will only try to answer your question about the universe and time. No one knows how this all began. The big bang is an explanation of a possibility confirmed by mathematics. Again, we will never know how it will end, at least for a long time (hopefully). The problem is, some folk (the chosen ones) think they know. Back to the universe. You understand the birth and death cycle, and it may well be that the universe has a cycle too. After all there is plenty of time. The universe is expanding, into what, can’t be known. Can it go on forever, or is there a limit? If there is, at that point it might collapse to start all over again. Plenty of time. The same argument for life. It is not known whether the seeds of life developed on earth or came from outer space. Science has proved the evolution of life forms. If the science is not believed or understood, that is a problem of education. Whichever way it happened, I feel really lucky to be here. Lucky us, depending on what country you are in.
    Oh, your last paragraph. Yes, this is all a scam which has been going on since the first Christians believed they were going to heaven as soon as they died. You have been scammed, I sincerely believe.
    If you might like to continue our discussion, I have some thoughts about some difficulties with resurrection, at least the Mormon version.
    Maybe you could answer some of my questions about what heaven and resurrected beings are like?
    Getting scammed in nothing to be ashamed of; it happens all the time. BTW Do you know the Joseph Smith story?

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    1. I would be happy to discuss the topic of resurrection with you!

      But first, I’d like to leave a few parting thoughts on the “origins theory” side – even if I thought the number were accurate, 13.8 billion years is not enough time for molecules-to-man evolution. And as for the last paragraph of my last comment; I was referring to the fact that religions and a belief in some God or group of gods has existed for the entire history of the human race – and you think you’re so smart that you can suddenly call the rest of us fundamentally ignorant or in possession of mental health issues? Again, why is the atheist not the one with the issues? especially since he makes up such a tiny fraction of humanity?

      Anyway, I read the “GROG” page of your blog and understand better where you are coming from – honestly, at first your mentioning of Mormonism threw me off because I am not a Mormon.

      I know plenty about Joseph Smith’s false prophecies and the history of how he built his cult. And even if I did not, a careful comparison of the Book of Mormon with the Bible shows the whole story of Mormonism to be a farce.

      As to your questions, are you referring to the ones you’ve already asked in this thread? Or do you have some others in mind?

      Resurrection (at least my own) is not important to my faith for the same reasons it is to the Mormon – in fact, it wouldn’t be important to me at all except that Paul goes into a lengthy discussion of the topic in 1 Corinthians 15. Primarily he focuses on the importance of Christ having been raised from the dead for the gospel to be true…

      I’ll stop rambling for the moment… I’d be happy to answer questions or interact with your thoughts.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Ok, if I call you, jd? Rather than “the topic of resurrection”, how about just resurrection? First, thoughts on the “origins theory”: The age of the universe is calculated backwards, mathematically, to a point where something happened! And, 13,800,000,000 years is a very long time. Saying that this isn’t enough time for life to evolve to its present condition, is silly. Do you have a guess as to how much time it should take?
    I am averse to long replies, so I would like to skip to your last paragraph; because it is about resurrection. You say that the resurrection is not important to your faith for the same reasons as the Mormons. How do your reasons differ? So, resurrection wouldn’t be important to you, except for what Paul said in the Bible? jd, This is a story in which little credence can be given, so if we can discuss resurrection and not stories of such events, that would be good. My belief is that all creatures have one life, and there is no evidence to believe otherwise. The resurrection of The Christ is the backbone of Christianity, that is what they all want to die for. The miracle of resurrection is where the delusion of being special comes in and the dreams of the hereafter begin.
    jd, How do you feel about dying? Imagine the sun coming up in the morning and you’re not there to see it, and the world continues on. No one knows what happens after death, but it is only human to make up stories about the unknown. GROG

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    1. Yes, you may refer to me as JD. 🙂

      You’ll excuse me if I do not share your ‘aversion to long replies,’ – even if it takes some time, I’d rather be thorough in addressing an issue than leave room for potential confusion.

      1: from what I know of Mormon eschatology – their doctrine of resurrection is entirely designed to be a self-centered, ego-boost of a promise of pleasure and happiness at the end (depending on how good of a Mormon they are, they get a “better” type of resurrection)… my view is far different, in that my resurrection will not be primarily for my own pleasure and benefit. Jesus tells us that “at the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage.” (Matthew 22:30-32) So that alone separates me from the Mormons.

      2: Actually, yes, my own physical resurrection would mean nothing to me except that the Biblical authors were inspired by the Spirit of Yahweh to write down instruction on the topic… incidentally, do you believe Plato, Aristotle, or any of the Caesars were real people? Or Napoleon, Charles Darwin, or Hitler, for that matter? If you do, how do you know they existed?

      3: frankly I look forward to my own demise more every day. No one will notice when I am gone, and I will not even register as a tiny blip on the radar screen of history. So long as God gains what He desired from my existence, He can count me among those He judges unto eternal damnation for our sins, among the people He has saved to praise and worship Him for all eternity, or cause me to simply cease to exist…

      As to your insistence upon the “desire to be special” motivation of the belief in resurrection, that may be true of Mormons. But Christians do not believe that they are “special” or any “better” than anyone else (though you could technically say we are “better off” in a sense)… because we believe EVERYONE will be resurrected at the end, it just depends on what you are resurrected to: “Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.” John 5:28-29

      You see, Christ and His glorification and praise are the only thing that ultimately matter. God is worthy of worship and praise, and if He inspires an author of Holy Writ to place the hinge of His people’s religion upon the Resurrection of His Son, we would do well to pay attention.

      I again recommend 1 Corinthians 15 for your reading if you’d truly like to understand what a Christian believes about resurrection, and why…

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  7. JD, How does resurrection work? That imight lead to a more interesting discussion. Is it the immortal soul that you believe makes resurrection possible? Such as, the immortal soul has a presence in heaven and as each child is born/conceived it gets an immortal soul installed. During a lifetime the human makes a lot of decisions, some good, some not so good, for which demerits are given on Judgment Day. Does the soul have a memory of mortality? If so, why is resurrection needed? After the immortal soul has had the experience of being a mortal, the physical body is no longer needed. That is where the narcissism kicks in. “Oh no”, the believer says, “It wouldn’t mean anything if “I” didn’t get saved and resurrected.” It seems like the soul gets second billing when it comes to who is more important, the soul or the former mortal. A resurrected being must have an immortal soul, but the body, brain, and memories are from the mortal experience. What of the children who don’t live beyond the age of five? God, of course could resurrect the physical body in any state of perfection He chooses, but the adult-child will have only the memories and mental abilities of the child. Of course, magical thinking, brought on by the delusion of the supernatural, can fix anything!
    In your world, how does resurrection work?
    GROG

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    1. Well, once again allow me to stress that I am not a Mormon. I do not believe the human soul/spirit is eternal. Our spirits are created at the same time as our physical bodies – at conception (Psalm 139:13, Isaiah 44:24-25, Jeremiah 1:5, etc.)

      The only reason we persist in existence beyond the death of our physical bodies is because God continues to “uphold” us (Colossians 1:17, Acts 17:26-29, etc) – however, our physical bodies are an essential part of what we are as human beings(Genesis 2:7). But, as fallen creatures, in direct rebellion against God or simply tainted by former rebellion, we cannot stand unprotected in the presence of a Thrice Holy God (Isaiah 6:1-5). Thus, for the disciple of Christ, part of the importance of the resurrection is found in the promise of a “glorified” body; untainted by sin, in which we will be able to bask in the unrestrained presence of God because of the covering righteousness of Christ and our new bodies.

      How does this work?

      What do you mean, HOW? If you can’t (and have acknowledged in previous comments that you cannot) tell me how the magical, spontaneous “explosion” of the Big Bang out of nothing happened – or how the nonsensical “evolution” of the first dead molecules into the first living cell happened – why would you even bother positing such a question about a miraculous event that will not take place until Judgement Day?

      God’s abilities are beyond human comprehension. Light came into existence simply because God COMMANDED it to; the same with everything else in the universe. Will He simply cause our new bodies to “pop into existence,” or will He Command dust and other molecules to change and morph into the new body?
      Basing our idea upon 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 – the event might end up “looking” like a combination of both those options! XD

      As for the questions regarding age and/or experience… how should I know? God has not told us anything beyond what He has revealed in Scripture.

      In closing, I must say that I am disappointed in your lack of interest in whether my questions to you even had anything to do with my belief in resurrection or not.

      As you have said before, the historical FACTS of Jesus’ life, crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection are the only reason any Christian can even have a hope like the resurrection. And we know all of these things are facts for the same reason we know anything about anyone in history: the recorded testimonies of eyewitnesses.

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  8. JD, You believe that your soul was created when you were born? Is the soul a part of the sperm or the egg? Maybe it comes into existence with the magic of fertilization? That is my question: How does this soul, resurrection process work?
    Your last paragraph: “As you have said before, the historical FACTS of Jesus’ life, crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection are the only reason any Christian can even have a hope like the resurrection. And we know all of these things are facts for the same reason we know anything about anyone in history: the recorded testimonies of eyewitnesses.”
    I said that the so called miracle of resurrection is the backbone of Christianity (and Islam), otherwise there is no need of God or heaven. There are no recorded testimonies of eyewitnesses to the resurrection and if the history is to be understood more sources must be checked. The Bible is not a reliable source. The New Testament was cobbled together decades after the supposed event of the “First Coming”.
    Your statement: “I do not believe the human soul/spirit is eternal.” If you believe this, what is the purpose of this entire exercise? What do you believe will happen at the Second Coming?

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  9. “JD, You believe that your soul was created when you were born? Is the soul a part of the sperm or the egg? Maybe it comes into existence with the magic of fertilization? That is my question: How does this soul, resurrection process work?”

    As far as I have reason to believe, the soul of a human being is created by God when He allows/causes the union of a man and woman to produce a child: namely at conception/fertilization. Beyond that there is nothing I can give in answer to your questions – and there is nothing I can say that would satisfy your demands for a basically NATURALISTIC answer; because the answer is fundamentally beyond the categories of materialistic naturalism.
    
”Your last paragraph: “[quoted last paragraph of my last comment]”
I said that the so called miracle of resurrection is the backbone of Christianity (and Islam), otherwise there is no need of God or heaven. There are no recorded testimonies of eyewitnesses to the resurrection and if the history is to be understood more sources must be checked. The Bible is not a reliable source. The New Testament was cobbled together decades after the supposed event of the “First Coming”.”

    All baseless statements full of underlying ignorance or intentional mishandling of facts. Can you read Greek? How much study have you done on ancient manuscripts? Or the happenings and history of Ancient Rome and Palestine? What facts do you possess that make it so “obvious” that the New Testament was “cobbled together” so long after the events?

    Also, if you can say that with any modicum of honesty, how can we believe in any historical events? Was Aristotle a real person? Also, based on that reasoning, what on earth – aside from completely subjective “mathematical formulas” that have NO ability to account for unknowns – makes you think your belief in the doctrine of molecules-to-man evolution is any more “reasonable” than my belief in a God that has the power and ability and prerogative to do whatever He wants?

    Here is the title of a lecture that you can look up to further your education on the subject of the New Testament’s historicity: “The Reliability of the New Testament Manuscripts” by Dr. James R White
    
”Your statement: “I do not believe the human soul/spirit is eternal.” If you believe this, what is the purpose of this entire exercise? What do you believe will happen at the Second Coming?”

    I thought I had already sufficiently answered these questions; but I will gladly reiterate.

    I do not believe the human spirit is “eternal” in the sense of “uncreated” – as the Mormons teach. But I DO believe that the human soul – having an origin point in time (namely, the conception of that person) – is preserved or made to exist beyond the point of physical death by God. This is because God created people in such a fashion that they bear His “image/likeness” and were intended to have personal communion and relationship with Him while showing forth His attributes of love, compassion, creativity, etc… but mankind’s rebellion against God has incurred the appropriate wrath of the All-Mighty, and so mankind dies for his sin.

    But God is merciful and gracious, and so He offers forgiveness – payed for on the cross by Jesus, the incarnate Third Person of the Trinity – and the righteousness of Christ to cover all those who repent and put their faith in Christ.

    All of this so that, at the Day of Judgement, when God calls forth the living and the dead of mankind into physical session before His throne, those who have trusted in Christ for forgiveness and justification before God may stand in new, glorious bodies, bought by the blood of Jesus, and be accepted into the glorious assembly of those who will praise and worship God forever.

    As for the unrepentant, revilers and haters of the Worthy, Wonderful, Creator God: “these shall go away, into everlasting punishment.”

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  10. Well JD, What you stated at the end is precisely why I am opposed to your brand of religion, which includes Judaism and Islam. These are death cults of humans praying for the end of humanity, with a dream of eternal purity and perfection. You seem very pleased with your beliefs and that is the power of self delusion. You can love yourself without God. GROG
    I wonder how young you are now. How long you do you expect to live JD? And please don’t say, “As long as God wants me to.”

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    1. If you have taken from my comments the idea that I “love myself” – you aren’t paying attention. I hate myself and my existence and hope to die within the next few years. And I pretty much expect to be cast into hell, not counted among the redeemed.

      Your inability (and that of every other non-thinking “atheist” who is obsessed with God) to answer my questions about the delusions of atheism only solidify those convictions.

      If you go to the “series” page of my blog you will find a litany of posts complaining about too many religious/”non-religious” and “spiritual” people talking about how we should “love ourselves” and all that garbage.

      Perhaps, by God’s grace, I will one day not be subject to the bouts of depression and other circumstances that cause me to “feel” as I do. But either way, it’s not about me. GOD is worthy of eternal praise and worship. He DESERVES our love, reverence, and obedience. I will pray that one day you realize that.

      Thanks for the conversation. Hopefully, if you really do care about people’s education and the need for critical thinking, you will eventually actually interact with and answer the questions asked of you by people who don’t agree with you.

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  11. “””If you have taken from my comments the idea that I “love myself” – you aren’t paying attention. I hate myself and my existence and hope to die within the next few years. And I pretty much expect to be cast into hell, not counted among the redeemed.””
    Oh, JD….I am paying attention. We all see inside of ourselves and we see the dark side. Evidently you feel so badly about yourself that you hope to die in the next few years? One of the main reasons for God, I think, is that the belief in God’s love gives “permission” to the believer to love themselves. If you have a wife and two magical daughters, you have a lot to love. You hope to cash out in a few years?! Sounds like desertion to me. It might be nice to stick around and see what happens. I was born in 1935 so with all that is happening in the world today, I’m really glad to be here to witness it. It can be a wonderful life especially if a person realizes that this is the only one they get! Imagine the Universe without God. I guess you can’t do that. GROG

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    1. It can be a wonderful life especially if a person realizes that this is the only one they get!

      And may I add … live it with gusto! There’s no “tomorrow” so enjoy every moment you have on this magnificent planet. And when it’s over, the energy that made up “you” will become part of the resplendent universe.

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  12. Nan, Isn’t it all so simple? But, the religious want, need, a more complicated scenario! I was just thinking, I remember Hitchens when he said what the word allah means. It means “to surrender”, but rather than surrender to the tyrant of the mind, surrender to life, this life. Surrender to the reality that this is really all there is.
    I love to hear Peggy Lee sing that song, ‘Is this All There Is?’.
    Thanks for your comment. GROG

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  13. I can think of no greater motivation to commit the grandest SIN of all… namely, a life unlived…. than the delusional belief that one is going to live forever. My painfully short existence does not render my life meaningless. On the contrary, it renders it infinitely precious… and I must make the most of it… no wasted heartbeats. Thanks and peace.

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  14. I see your blog entry brought the delusionals out in force, Grog. It’s amazing that there are people who believe in magic so forcefully, isn’t it? ;). Fairy tales for adults, eh?

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    1. There is no limit to their delusions. Each has their own personal God into whom they pour their dreams. Nearly half of the earth’s people belong to the JCI (Judaism Christianity Islam) and they pray for salvation, resurrection, and the end of the world. GROG

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